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Sprakie
Junior Member
United Kingdom
126 posts
Joined: Dec, 2009
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 Posted - 2010/04/09 : 18:37:54
http://www.wikileaks.org/
Has any of you seen this video before? my dad showed me it yesterday and i thought it was disgusting! i never thought any soldier would be like this tbh..
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Edited by - Sprakie on 2010/04/09 18:49:26 |
latininxtc
Advanced Member
United States
7,307 posts
Joined: Feb, 2006
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Posted - 2010/04/09 : 18:46:20
doesn't show up 4 some reason. and u mean soldier?
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whispering
Moderator
Finland
8,453 posts
Joined: Nov, 2002
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Posted - 2010/04/09 : 19:54:46
Wikileaks is a site that reveals and hosts sensitive information. If you mean that chopper shooter that shot those civilians, yes disgusting. But its only a one page on wikileaks. Theres a direct link:
http://collateralmurder.com
TBH thats what happens in a war. You wipe the self righteous ******** from the facade and thats what you get. War is always ugly, always will be. It should only be used as a last option. On that one it wasn't, the war was started on purpose without proper justification. Thats only the tip of the iceberg on the casulties.
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Edited by - whispering on 2010/04/09 20:00:22 |
Dante
Advanced Member
Vatican City State (Holy See)
1,185 posts
Joined: Dec, 2009
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Posted - 2010/04/09 : 21:12:32
****ing yanks, primarily Bush and his redneck administration.
Disgusting.
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Brian K
Advanced Member
United States
8,663 posts
Joined: Sep, 2001
528 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2010/04/09 : 23:00:55
well they screwed up for taking action shooting when they should of sent people in on the ground to question them. unfortunately for them, the pilots thought they were carrying weapons and got lit up.
this was during one of the heaviest fighting periods in iraq and helicopters were being shot down with rpgs in the area.
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TheOneNOnly
Advanced Member
United States
1,937 posts
Joined: Oct, 2008
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Posted - 2010/04/09 : 23:54:55
quote:
Originally posted by Dante:
****ing yanks, primarily Bush and his redneck administration.
Disgusting.
I take serious insult to that. Bush and what he used with the cover to get back at the people who attacked us? I agree, but Blair also went along with him. Going off what Brian said, how would you act when the war is riddled with people of your own dying from people attacking you and your allies with RPGs?
I don't agree with this war per se, because I think the real reason we're there has become very obscured. But in this kind of war, whether you agree with it or not for the reason it's happening, hesitation gets your men killed. They could of lost a dozen, maybe more lives if they sent ground troops to question them.
I think the gunners and the pilots are sadists, though. "Oh yeah, look at all those bodies down there" and "Oh yeah, right through the windshield. Ha ha!" Seriously? There's one thing in doing your job, but having fun knowing you're taking their lives and laughing about it? That's extremely, EXTREMELY ****ed up.
Some of my quotes I like that I think pertain to this:
The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations. ~David Friedman
War does not determine who is right - only who is left. ~Bertrand Russell
Give me the money that has been spent in war and I will clothe every man, woman, and child in an attire of which kings and queens will be proud. I will build a schoolhouse in every valley over the whole earth. I will crown every hillside with a place of worship consecrated to peace. ~Charles Sumner
This kind of shit is why I've lost all faith in humanity. We push each other around for differences, and we attack each other for less. War is always stupid and for the cowardly who declare it, and don't fight it. Welcome to humanity, if we don't like what you do, we kill you.
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Dante
Advanced Member
Vatican City State (Holy See)
1,185 posts
Joined: Dec, 2009
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Posted - 2010/04/10 : 01:44:16
I apologize, I didn't mean to offend anyone, I just got caught up in the video. I understand that they didn't want to take any chances with choppers being shot down by RPGs, it's human nature to fight for survival.
I do believe we agree on the subject, TheOneNOnly, it's just stuff like this gets me incredibly angry, and the first to blame for the war in Iraq, for me anyway, is Bush. I'm not saying Blair was a better man, I just blamed Bush since these were American soldiers.
I don't believe for a second in the reasons given for the invasion of Iraq. WMDs? Never found. Spreading democracy? Right. I think Junior had personal reasons, to finish what his father couldn't.
Again, I'm very sorry for offending, it was never the intention
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latininxtc
Advanced Member
United States
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Posted - 2010/04/10 : 05:19:16
i'm not offended and i'm not even bothering looking at the video. won't surprise me to see what goes on there ppl have gotten away with many things during war it is a damn shame it happens, but a select few soldiers does not represent the army as a whole.
and yes our purpose for this war has become obscured and for the most part we led ourselves into believing that invading iraq was necessary b/c at the time we were still full of massive 9/11 hysteria. to go against invading iraq at the beginning meant being labeled a traitor to the country.
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TheOneNOnly
Advanced Member
United States
1,937 posts
Joined: Oct, 2008
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Posted - 2010/04/10 : 06:29:01
It's okay, Dante, I just always have to put my word in ;]
quote:
Originally posted by latininxtc:
ppl have gotten away with many things during war it is a damn shame it happens, but a select few soldiers does not represent the army as a whole.
Agreed.
quote:
Originally posted by latininxtc:
and yes our purpose for this war has become obscured and for the most part we led ourselves into believing that invading iraq was necessary b/c at the time we were still full of massive 9/11 hysteria. to go against invading iraq at the beginning meant being labeled a traitor to the country.
Also agreed, but looking back at it now it's complete ********.
Too bad we can't turn back time to avoid these things.
Hear about that bombing in Moscow, the two women who suicide bombed themselves? One on the train, and the other I believe was in the park outside the train station? New York went on full alert that day, with armed military and law enforcement guards in groups of 3+ patrolling everywhere from the airport, to the train tunnels?
Yet, it was never on the news. No one reported it. I wouldn't of known if not for someone on Yahoo posting up the article. Too many lives are being lost over disagreements, and I just think it's stupid. Even if we put every different belief for ANYTHING on separate planets, it wouldn't stop. Someone from one planet wouldn't like what the other did, then try to nuke the planet to get rid of the people they disagree with.
It's a sad world when people can't get along with their own kind, and we end up killing each other for it. I despise how words are strong, but bullets are stronger.
Here's a quote for you, Latin:
"Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
~Hermann Goering
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Edited by - TheOneNOnly on 2010/04/10 06:32:04 |
Samination
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Sweden
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Posted - 2010/04/10 : 07:32:18
It's kind of idiotic to blame Bush, as this was an act of a single/couple of persons who where too triggerhappy, but the coverup might have been a bad move.
These idiots exists everywhere, but since US Army is one of hte biggest armies, it will show more often there
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Kaslysias
Starting Member
United States
9 posts
Joined: Apr, 2010
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Posted - 2010/04/10 : 08:01:03
quote:
Originally posted by Brian K:
this was during one of the heaviest fighting periods in iraq and helicopters were being shot down with rpgs in the area.
I've watched this video and seen a lot of discussion on it... here's a few things I noticed with:
Yes, this was 2007; so obviously there was still some combat going on (2007 was the most deadliest year in terms of US Military deaths) -- also, if you watch the entire movie, you'll notice that there are two helos that are called in by a Platoon on the ground that was in the area (and whom come around at the end of the video to examine the situation). And you're definitely right, they should have had the ground forces examine further instead of making assumptions.
Secondly, even if the people on the ground had weapons (including an RPG), you'll notice that the helos (specifically, the one which we're watching from) are about 1.5 miles away (2.4 km). When the Apache fires the first rounds on the group, you'll notice the rounds take about 3 seconds to hit the target. These are 30mm rounds from a M230 Chain Gun which has a muzzle velocity of 800 m/sec... Obviously the pilots are NOT in any danger if this particular group had an RPG with them.
I think the situation that most people have a problem with is the fact that they ask (and receive PERMISSION) to engage the van which drives up to assist the wounded. It was ridiculous that they needed to blow the van away its passengers with more 30mm fire. Plus, how the pilots are acting doesn't help any either.
Not only that, but you'll see in the video that upon arriving and finding 2 wounded children, victims of a military attack, the chain of command orders them to be handed over to Iraqi Police (and thus a civilian hospital) instead of being evac'd to the military hospital. So, because this unit decided to make this children victims of military attack, these "POWs" were not treated as they should have been. (Geneva Conventions state that POWs must receive medical treatment).
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Sprakie
Junior Member
United Kingdom
126 posts
Joined: Dec, 2009
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Posted - 2010/04/10 : 14:41:41
Okay, when i posted this i didn't want any offensive comments towards anybody, altho it was pretty obviouse that something like that would happen.
But what bothers me the most is this, the cameras they were using have very small zooms on them, whereas they also can switch to a different camera, which has full colour vision and 3x more extra zoom, so they could have taken a better look at what the men were actually carrying.
Also, the fact that the men seemed to be enjoying the fact they were taking peoples lives which they have never met, spoke to or interacted with in any other way than pointing a cross at them and pulling a little lever shooting balls of lead at them.
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